Let’s Talk About Blue - Ep115

 

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• Ep 115 Community Spotlight:

 

1. @MothershipGames - 5:37
2. @LennyWooley - 8:13
3. @MtgProphet - 20:04
4. @edhrec - 32:41
5. @TheTokenOtaku - 46:59

 

• Main Topic - A Case for Blue

 

1. Disclaimer: There is no right or wrong here. Everyone has feelings, and all feelings are valid. This is an attempt to encourage discussion. 
   1. Lenny - It feels like blue players always have a trick up their sleeve.
   2. 1. And this is one of the most legitimate criticisms of Blue, I’ve ever heard, and it’s also one of the reasons I love blue! With so many cards available at instant speed, Blue gets the longest amount of time to make decisions, and gets to have the most information available when they make said decisions.
      1. I think this one is somewhat related to the point above. Specifically, that Blue players can leave up interaction mana, and then if nothing needs interacting, they can draw some cards, or with a lot of things having flash, they can commit resources to the board, and then untap with protection, and the creatures have pseudo-haste.
      2. I think this is one of the things that gets people to say “Kill the blue mage first”, and maybe that’s valid. It’s also a real point that blue players can often “not look too scary until it’s too late” This is kind of a good reason to play Blue :)
   3. Blue decks tend to sneak by and win out of nowhere.
      1. This one upsets people a lot, and I definitely understand it sometimes, like in the case of Blatant Thievery and Expropriate, where the opposing players have invested cards and mana into the permanent. Something like Thada Adel, Acquisitor often gets the same type of reactions, and that one feels less true to me.
      2. I think I’d rather clone than steal
   4. Thievery
      1. feel bad and can cause people to feel afraid to make big plays
      2. I’ve heard of playgroups that rule 0 ban ALL counterspells
         1. Don’t get me started on Brawl on Arena, in 1-1 counterspells do feel pretty bad :(
         2. Sometimes a combo would be able to win at “instant speed” and so even normal removal won’t cut it.
         3. Prophet’s example of Craterhoof and Dockside
            1. Have much stricter timing when compared to traditional removal
            2. You need to know when a creature is going to be pointed at you when it’s on the stack, with traditional removal, you can wait until someone *actually* attacks you.
            3. 1-for-1 cards don’t scale in Commander. A deck with 30 counterspells in it is probably NOT very good.
            4. I honestly think Propaganda is much more annoying than Counterspells.
            5. Counterspells can be teamed up on. Although this does kinda stink for the person to the left of the Counterspeller. (But it’s also much more tempting for a Blue mage to let spells of player on their left resolve).
         4. I think Counterspells are actually kinda bad in Commander (Free ones are the exception here). 
            1. My Blue Braid’s deck has 6 counterspells, but 2 are situational
            2. My Morph deck has 2 counterspells
            3. Nymris deck has 9, that might be too many… (Many of them cost 5 or more mana)
            4. Mono blue wizards has 5, but they are pretty situational and/or versatile, Kheru Spellsnatcher, Mystic Confluence
         5. Counterspells in my decks (I do love Draining Whelk)
      3. This is tricky, because Counterspells can certainly cause feel bads, but they can also be heroes
   5. Counterspells
      1. 32/100 cards are blue (or have blue in their color identity). This is roughly ⅓ when it, if everything was equal, it should be ⅕ or less (due to artifacts and lands), so the math definitely points to blue being Salt inducing.
         1. Yeah, these can be rage-inducing. Also, these are the kinda effects that lead people to team up on a player, and I tend not to run them too too often (I am guilty of Expropriate AND Time Stretch in the same deck though)
         2. Comparison to Sword of Feast and Famine
      2. Extra turns
   6. Blue wincons can be salt inducing. (iw. Control, combo, or extra turns)
2. It feels like we’ve been hearing more and more players say they don’t care to play or play against blue, so we took to our patrons to find out some reasons people aren’t down with one of our favorite colors. 
   1. White - Stax / MLD
   2. Green - Ramp
   3. Black - Tutors and discard effects
   4. Red - Wheels and other chaos type effects
   5. Basically, the rule zero talk needs to be in full-effect here. It really matters when you’re BUILDING the deck.
3. Thinking about the given answers playing blue seems like it could be a feels bad, but when you look at the other colors they have mechanics that can cause the same kind of feelings
   1. Fact or Fiction
   2. Illusionist's Gambit and Aetherize - Protection from being attacked
   3. Wrong Turn
   4. Plagiarize 
      1. These are sooo blue, and soooo fun, and perfect 75% cards
   5. Clones - Phantasmal Image
   6. Can change color, land words, and creature types
   7. Supplant Form
   8. Spellweaver Volute
   9. Sudden Substitution
   10. Rite of Replication
   11. Clone Legion
   12. Faerie Artisans
   13. Bident of Thassa
4. Does blue have things other to offer than counters, combos, or extra turns that aren’t oppressive?
   1. Zack
   2. 1. Artifact synergies!
      2. Zack wings it
      1. Blue lets me feel smart. People like to feel smart. 
      2. I like having as much info as possible when making a decision, and Blue let’s me do that. I mean, come on, Flash!
      3. Blue can “Fly under the Radar”. At the same time, when someone attacks you or messes with your stuff, you as a blue player should try and understand this, and take it as the compliment it is (and yeah, be honest with yourself). Also, realize that sometimes you won’t have anything going on, but THEY don’t know that, and so you might have some unfun games when that happens.
   3. Ryan
5. Why do we like blue?

 

1. Summary
2. 1. How do you feel about Blue? Is it worth going out of your comfort zone to give Blue a try?

 

• Wrap it up

 

1. 1.  
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